The “tradwives” are retreating. Nara Smith went on Call Her Daddy to renounce any association with the term, and has been in the middle of a full-on rebrand as the promotes her new cookbook. Other figureheads, like Hannah Neeleman aka Ballerina Farm, are taking a step back to put their business first. Meanwhile, the actual former tradwives are suffering. On today’s episode, host Kate Lindsay is joined by author and Culture Study host Anne Helen Petersen to talk about why these women are making such public shifts, and what happens when the word “tradwife” loses all meaning.

This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, and Kate Lindsay.