As the 28th chief of the Indian Army, he steered the force through some of India’s toughest standoffs with the neighborhood. Former Chief of Army Staff of the Indian Army, General M.M. Naravane joins Runjhun Sharma, head of news at RT India, for the latest episode of the weekly podcast India, Russia and the World.

He says the real lesson of the Galwan clash was learned by Beijing, not New Delhi. “It is probably the Chinese who have learnt the lesson rather than us. They realised that a military option to resolve the boundary question is out. It cannot be resolved militarily,” says Naravane. With delimitation now back on the table, he sees hope, but says India cannot let its guard down.

He weighs in on the Makkah Pact between Turkey, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia, a tricky equation for India, with Riyadh a friend and Islamabad a threat, and warns that Bangladesh’s entry could open a second front. On India-Russia relations, he says trust has taken defence ties from buyer-seller to co-production, with co-development next. He adds that BrahMos is the prime example, having proven itself in Operation Sindoor and now drawing buyers from around the world.