Terry Gerton The Department of Justice has certainly had a high profile during the Trump administration, but really much of its daily work is usually non-controversial. And we’re talking here about FBI and DEA and Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms agents and district attorney general offices across the country. When you think of and when you’re engaging with the DOJ workforce these days, what are you hearing most often from the current and former workers there?

Stacey Young What I’m hearing is that employees these days are really living in a culture of fear that this administration created. I wanna be clear about something though. There is still incredibly important work being done every day by career employees. There are still over 100,000 career employees at the department who are prosecuting violent crime and countering terrorism and espionage. You know, working to keep us prosperous by enforcing antitrust laws and holding financial fraudsters accountable. They’re still doing work to protect our fundamental freedoms and they’re trying to keep our elected officials honest. So they’re still incredibly important work, keeping us safe, protecting our rights, protecting our economy. But what’s happening under the surface is really distressing. Hundreds of DOJ employees have been fired. Under the leadership of Todd Blanche, over 16,000 employees have left the department since the beginning of this administration. And that is because of the disrespect this administration is showing career employees at the department. And that really needs to stop before we reach a point of no return where the work really won’t be done by the department to protect this country. So we’re on a very dangerous path right now and we are doing everything we can to encourage a course correction and we don’t think that that can happen under the leadership of Todd Blanche.

Terry Gerton Your organization, the Justice Connection, mobilized more than 1,200 former DOJ officials who signed a letter opposing Mr. Blanche’s nomination. But that group crossed multiple administrations in very different parts of the department. What did it take to bring that coalition together, and what was the central concern?

Stacey Young You know, it wasn’t quite as hard as you’d think considering that it’s hard to get more than two or three DOJ lawyers to agree on anything. We have many thousands of DOJ alumni in our network at this point. We drafted a letter, we sent it to the alumni in the network, we encouraged them to sign, and they did in droves. And this was an opportunity for them to sign something that they couldn’t edit, which, you know, is asking a lot. And tons of them signed without us really having to push them because of how outraged DOJ alumni are about this nomination. The people who understand the department the best, the people who really care about it the most, are those who used to work there. And we are almost all sure that what is happening there right now is unacceptable. It is so far outside of the norm. It is making Americans less safe, and we want to see it stop. So it wasn’t that hard for us to get that many people on our side. And what I think is really telling is that there was a letter of DOJ alumni supporting Todd Blanche that was filed after we sent our letter, and that letter attracted 77 DOJ alumni. And that letter actually isn’t public. It was reported on, but we don’t know what the letter says. We don’t who signed it. We only know of four signatories, all of whom are former political appointees. Whereas on our letter, it was almost all former career employees, people who are not used to really putting themselves out there like this, especially in a culture that is pretty hostile, in part due to Todd Blanche’s leadership at the Department of Justice. So. It was an enormous amount of alumni. This is something that’s never happened before. And I think that the public should really take note of the fact that alumni feel as strongly as they do.

Terry Gerton Stacey Young is the executive director and founder of the Justice Connection. Stacey, what does this letter tell us that career employees are worried about that the public may not be seeing?

Stacey Young We’re worried about the fact that so many DOJ employees have already left on their own accord. These are the kinds of jobs that are very difficult to get. These are kinds of the jobs that people usually stay in for their entire careers, and for the fact, you know, the fact so many people have left really shows how dire the situation there is right now. We’re also really concerned about the fact that so many DOJ employees have been diverted away from their core work. Todd Blanche has overseen initiatives to pull employees away from their mission-critical tasks. A quarter of FBI employees, for example, have been reassigned to immigration enforcement. Lawyers across the department are assigned immigration-related habeas cases. We see federal agents patrolling city streets. This kind of stuff drives employees out. This is not why they join the department. And we’re also seeing the department having an extraordinarily difficult time hiring people. For jobs that used to attract hundreds or thousands of applications, we’re seeing the department not be able to fill these positions at all. And that, again, is because of the terrible leadership we’re seen from the top. And the buck stops with Todd Blanche. He is leading the department right now and we think that his record speaks for itself. He is incapable and unwilling to engage in a course correction. And we are doing everything we can to prevent him being confirmed as the next attorney general.

Terry Gerton You mentioned those reassignments and staffing shortfalls. You also talked about a culture of fear and retribution. What impact is that having on folks who are just trying to do their job every day?

Stacey Young It’s really hard to do your job well if you’re working under leadership that despises you, that demonizes you, that creates lies about, spreads lies about you, that calls you the deep state. It’s hard to your job well, when the leaders in your office have been pushed out, which is the case in many offices across the department, it’s difficult to do job well. When you fear that you’ll be the next one to be ordered to carry out illegal conduct or unconstitutional conduct or unethical conduct. These situations are facing employees every day across the departments. They are eroding the quality of work being done. The amount of work been done has lessened because there are fewer people doing it. And really the integrity of the department is being questioned almost on a daily basis by judges as well. So the situation there is unlike anything we’ve seen, we exist to support those who are still there and to push back in the media and in the public against what we’re seeing.

Terry Gerton We’ve seen some other agencies under this administration where active employees have signed similar letters of concern, actually put their names on them, and had retribution actions taken against them. Your letter is signed by alumni of the department. Was there concern from the current workforce about signing such a thing?

Stacey Young We do not encourage current employees to engage in any kind of advocacy against leadership right now unless they’re ready to leave their jobs. The retribution they will face is almost certain. Employees have faced retribution from this administration simply for working on cases under different administrations. Speaking out publicly against this administration will almost certainly get them fired. So we do not encourage nor do we allow current employees to join our letters, to join public advocacy, because we are concerned about their job safety and frankly their safety in other respects as well. We mobilize alumni who are outside of the department to speak out, but we encourage employees to not do that. And to be clear, they do have First Amendment rights. And we do encourage employees to blow the whistle when they see unlawful or fraudulent conduct, or unconstitutional conduct. But in terms of simply speaking out against this administration’s policies and practices, we encourage them not to do that.

Terry Gerton So Stacey, whether or not Mr. Blanche is ultimately confirmed, what are you hoping to see on the workforce’s behalf that would tell you that things might be changing in a positive direction?

Stacey Young We would like to see assurances that retaliatory firings and other conduct will stop. We want to see the department say that they will not require employees to sign NDAs in line with a new regulation that hasn’t been finalized. We would encourage the department to communicate, to telegraph it to employees that they are respected, they are supported, they are the backbone of the department, which they are. We would like to see the department return flexible work options and other accommodations that make people’s jobs easier to do. And we would like an absolute assurance that regardless of what employees did under prior administrations, that past work will not lead to retaliatory actions under this administration. These are very simple requests, requests that would never have been necessary under prior administrations, but we’re asking for some basic changes that we should be seeing under any leadership.